Interviewer: Dina De Gregorio
Interviewee: Louis F. Spina
Date: December, 2000
Relationship: Teacher

From Sicily to Little Italy

What is your name?

Louis F Spina

What is your nationality?

Italian

What is your date of birth?

February 26, 1960

Where were you born?

Sicily

When did you (move to the U.S./move from somewhere else in the U.S.) to Philadelphia?

I moved to the US at approximately the age of 6.

Why did you leave your country/State/former place of residence?

Why did I leave my country? Actually, it was my parents decision to leave the country, to leave Italy. They left Italy because they, like everybody else in Europe, believed that there was more opportunities here in the US . You have to understand the US has this reputation for giving people the opportunity to, shall I say, like, get rich quick, you know, and it's almost like a fantasy in other countries when you think of the US and you hear that people with three TV's and two cars and they want to come over here to find their fortune.

What did you like/dislike about your home/country?

I didn't dislike anything. What I liked most about it? I liked, I didn't know this then, ok, because it's all I knew then . But knowing what I know now, and being exposed to what I've been exposed to in this country, what I miss most about there is the countryside.  The freedom in this country, when you go out to play well not everywhere, but maybe in South Philly when you go out to play you play on your pavement.  When I played [in Sicily] I would jump on my horse. As a little kid I had a pony. I would ride for hours and you wouldn't see anybody for hours. The towns themselves, the architecture of the towns were ancient, and of course everybody's family there! But you're not here, you're lucky if you know the name of the person that lives next door to you. There everybody is family so it's just a different attitude there. Money . Success. Success there is not how much money you accumulated but how much happiness you have accumulated. That was the definition of success. If you considered yourself successful it was because you were happy, not because you were rich, and that's the definition.

Why did you choose Philadelphia/U.S?

Actually my father did, and the reason he did I already had family here. My grandmother's brothers and sisters, which would be my father's aunts and uncles (which would be my great uncles and aunts) had already come here to the US and came to Philadelphia.  They were tailors and they came to Philadelphia with the dream of opening tailor shops. They had come here about 20 years before we actually came over. And actually did open a couple of tailor shops like what we call dry cleaners and they had homes by the time we got here.  I had aunts and uncles that already purchased homes because that's where I lived, it was a logical choice to come here, that's what Italians did.  And that's why to this day, although it's starting to dwindle, that's why to this day Italians live in Italian neighborhoods because you find that other ethnic groups too, because if you come from another country and you go to the US where are you going to go, you're gonna go with people of your own kind because when you come here you're not going to have anything, you not going to have a place to live, you're not going to have a dime in your pocket.  When you get off the boat you're going to be hungry, so where do you go? You go with people of your ethnicity because they're the ones that are going to take care of you OK. And that was really during the Italian migration and that's why you have places called Little Italy.

How did you travel here?/What type of transportation did you use/take to travel here? How would you change that?

Oh, I would have definably flown, even though I had a ball as a kid on the boat running all over, I remember the rats on the boat and to me I got a kick out of that because it was pretty funny watching, you know, the underground part of the boat, I don't know what's it's called. I'm not boat educated but you know you see rats running the ropes and all but it was a lot of fun. I wouldn't do it now I would definitely fly.

How did you find a place to live in Philly?

Fortunately, like I had mentioned, I had an uncle and I also had an aunt that lived next door to each other, who bought homes right next to each other, on Snyder Avenue in South Philadelphia so when we came over my uncle moved in with my aunt so we could move into the house. And as it turns out that's where I end up living for 30 years. We still own that house and that's where I grew up.

With whom did you travel? [Who did you travel with?]

When I came, I traveled with my mother and father. No, I shouldn't say that, because I traveled with my mother because my father had already come over here - he had come ahead of us - I guess to make sure that we had a place to live and all. I traveled with my mother and my other sister and a brother a year younger than me. However, when we got to the States, I mean during the trip, my mother was pregnant so when we got to the States she gave birth to my sister, she was born here in the States.

Give 1 thing you remember most about your home town and why?

My town? Seriously? There was this girl I was in love with, no. What I do remember the most about my town? I remember, I don't remember any one thing the most, but there are things about the town that stick out in my head that I remember like now growing up in the States how the streets weren't paved, they weren't, and you rarely saw a car, very rarely saw an automobiles and if you did see an automobile it was a broken down pick-up truck. Or like a limo which was pretty strange, seeing a limousine traveling down on a dirt road, that was because of the Mob that lived in Sicily and things like that but I remember it was rare to see a car come down the street, we played in the streets and then there were horses. There was very little schooling, I remember, in our town, we lived in the mountains. What I remember the most was the landscape, sitting on a cliff, you know, I would go up, because I was a loner when I was a little boy and I would just sit there and you could see the whole island and not only see the whole island of Sicily but see Italy and just sit there and daydream.

How did your life change when you moved and what were the differences between the two places?

Initially for me it didn't change much and the differences was it was more crowded and I guess the most important thing I had to get used to was going to school because when I had gotten here, I was ready to go to first grade, age wise, not education wise because I wasn't but age wise I was ready to go. I had to go and I had never been to a classroom. There are no truant officers. Most people didn't go to school or they would go for a couple years and then say they ain't going and then they help their family in the farm. So it was the first time I was required to get up every morning and go to school and then to go with people who were Americans. Now, fortunately, they didn't know I wasn't. They had no idea I wasn't. I had a little bit of an accent, all right, my father always spoke English, he was always going back and forth because of my relatives who came here. My father spoke English but still, it was an uncomfortable time for me.

What did you expect about the US/Philly?

What did I expect? I thought I was coming to heaven, I really did. And that's what you're really think when you're over there, especially when you're not growing up in a big city like Madrid or Rome but you're growing up in the mountains somewhere. When you hear of the U.S. you think one big Disney World. You do. Not only that, you think everybody is rich.

What did you come here to accomplish and what else do you feel you still need to do?

Obviously, I didn't come here to accomplish anything. My father came here to make a better life for for us, because he was sold on the theory that this was the land of opportunity and could imagine how much opportunity there is in Sicily. Not much. Enough for him. He wanted more for us, ok, that's why he brought us here, so he was sold on the theory that this was the land of opportunity. So he brought all here to get an education and to get good jobs and make a lot of money. That was accomplished! Yeah, and I don't know if he would say it was, because he is not happy today with the fact what each of us has chosen to do because it wasn't part of his plan, because if it was up to him, we all would have gone to medical school and been millionaires and but my brother's a social worker. My father's an attorney, I have a sister who's an attorney.  I think I'm the black sheep of the family because, although I tried to be the good son, I went to law school and got my law degree and practiced law, I didn't want to do it.  I just had a very cynical attitude toward it. It's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to give something back to the world, do something worthwhile. So, of course he wasn't happy about it. To this day he is not happy that I'm a teacher - I'm wasting my life and that's an old Italian father for you.

What are the differences between when you came here and now?

There are major differences, the city itself. When we first came to South Philadelphia it was there was no crime. And it was true that Angelo Bruno, the Don of the Mafia lived on the same street as me! And it's true that I grew up with mobsters that are now in jail and are being tried for organized crime. It's true, Joey Marlino was a good friend of mine. But despite all that, despite the fact that they're all criminals. You wouldn't do something like rob a house or steal a car. What if you robed the wrong car?  You're finished. You better move out of the country.  I remember on summer nights, my mother and her friends would sit out with their beach chairs out in front of the house 'til 2 or 3 in the morning smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee.

What did you sacrifice/leave behind when you left?

I guess I left behind my culture, that's what I feel. Even though people argue, you never lose that, that's your culture. I struggled with it .

What problems did you encounter coming to the US/Philly?

Personal, none. My family had no problem coming over here, no, no problem at all. I had family here, which made leaving the country a pretty smooth transition.

How much money did you have and where did you get it when you came to Philly/US?

We had nothing, not a dime! But like I said, my aunts and uncles gave us everything we needed. My aunts and uncles came 15 or 20 years before us, so they were there at Elis Island when we got there.

How did you adapt to your new environment?

Innately I adapted to by not adapting to it, by not going out, by staying in. But I guess school got me out of that. Basically I adapted to it by necessity, what other choice did I have?

Why do you think it was worth all your changes?

I'm not sure it was worth all my changes. I'm sure it was. I don't know if it was.

What education did you have before/after you arrived?

I had no education before I got here, since then I have a Bachelor's and a Master's in psychology, a law degree and I will have in June, a Master's in education.

Do you [ever] regret moving? Why or why not?

No, because I have enjoyed my time here.

What reason would/could make you go back to where you came from?

Nothing can make me go back there forever. I do intend to go visit.

Describe your first job here. If you didn't have one, where did you get money?

My first job was as a busboy in a restaurant in South Philadelphia. It's the Saloon. I started when I was 17 and I worked there for 7 years. Back then that was a good job.

Is there anything you would like to add?

Just that I would never change my heritage. I think Italian people in general are a very close knit group and we protect each other.